Difference between revisions of "Talk:Michael Deibert"

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m (Reverted edits by HaitiHistory (talk) to last revision by Doe)
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If there is anything defamatory on this page, please state why so we can have a discussion about it, deleting content is not acceptable. Doe 16:12, 18 July 2011 (PDT)
If there is anything defamatory on this page, please state why so we can have a discussion about it, deleting content is not acceptable. Doe 16:12, 18 July 2011 (PDT)
== What happened to TLP???  ==
I looked up this article on the advice of a friend and must say I was appalled and what has become of the Louverture Project since it passed from the hands of Stuart Maxwell to Dominique Esser.
Just off the top of my head
1. Amnesty International link on So Anne and others did not mention Deibert and therefore not relevant to articles.
2. Deibert is on record as responding to some of these criticise, particularly Elie: http://deiberthaiti.blogspot.com/2008/03/final-notes-on-patrick-elie.html. Should we include all accusations and counter-accusations? Could make for a far-too-lengthy article, imho.
3. Deibert did not allege child sacrifice, read here http://deiberthaiti.blogspot.com/2011/03/response-regarding-few-points.html. Should Michele Montas also be attacked for speaking on this issue?
Added a link to a Jeremy Taylor article which criticizes Diebert but excised several others which come close to libel. It is really unfortunate that Dominique would use this site to try and settle what appears to be some kind of personal score with Diebert.
Again, a real shame what's become of the Louverture Project! It was such a good idea when Stuart started it! I wonder what happened...
== Balance of article ==
== Balance of article ==

Revision as of 19:00, 21 July 2011

Needs cleanup Doe 20:18, 7 July 2011 (PDT)

Page was potentially libelous and defamatory attack page. Offy

Re libel accusations

If there is anything defamatory on this page, please state why so we can have a discussion about it, deleting content is not acceptable. Doe 16:12, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

Balance of article

This article lacks balance and will need to be edited further. Hfhfhfh 16:41, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

Removing content is not an acceptable way to resolve differences. Discussion is. The article doesn't necessaryly have to be balanced.
For example there isn't a single pro-slavery argument on TLP or Bonaparte isn't exactly portrayed in the most positive of lights.
This is to be expected in any written material that is ultimately about one of the three great revolutions of the late 18th century.

--Doe | talk 18:34, 18 July 2011 (PDT)

Article is an attack page/factually inaccurate

Please specify as to why this is an attack page! Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

This article is factually inaccurate on several points and as such must be amended.

No, all the points you call inaccurate are referenced. Who says that the article must be amended?

-Doe | talk 19:15, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

1. "Extreme right wing stance"

Deibert is in fact left-wing, and has vocally supported a multitude of progressive causes both within and without Haiti. For example

A. Deibert is a strong supporter of Haiti's peasantry

The international community's responsibility to Haiti [1]

Haiti’s peasantry key to reconstruction [2]

Deibert also is fond of the Haitian sweatshop magnate Andy Apaid. Case in point: none!
If Deibert perceives himself left-wing it is his right to do so. I am more concerned with how others perceive his journalism. See references. Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

Deibert never wrote line in favor of Apaid, this is disinfo.

You ahem Deibert interviewed this character for his book, I cannot recall any other serious author given Apaid even one line in their books given the Apaid's sordid history in Haitian politics.

--Doe | talk 19:15, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

B. Deibert is a strong defender of the rights of Haitian immigrants in the Dominican Republic

Exhibit Reveals a Bitter Harvest http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=36905

A disgraceful campaign by the government of the Dominican Republic available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

An Appeal to Decency on behalf of Haitians and Dominicans of Haitian descent [3]

C. Deibert was a strong supporter of the election of U.S. President Barack Obama

Why I am voting for Barack Obama available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

D. Deibert was a strong supporter of health care reform in the United States

The Guns of August available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

I wrote: "[Deibert] has been criticized for what is perceived as his extreme right wing stance in regards to his reporting on Haitian politics as well as factual errors" that I can back up with references.
What Deibert thinks about Barack Obama and other topics is inconsequential in evaluating his stance on Haitian politics and his involvement in reporting on it. -Doe | talk 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

2. "Frequently criticized"

Deibert has as many defenders as critics, both within Haiti and without. For example:

"Indefensible: On Aristide, Violence, and Democracy" by Alex Dupuy available on michaeldeibert.com -Doe | talk 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

""L’aventure onusienne en Haiti" by Jean-Claude Bajeux [4]

"Author gives insight into Haitian politics" by Char Miller http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/haiti-archive-new/msg28091.html.

"The rise and fall of Haiti's 'savior'" by Don Bohning (removed link to wehaitians.com/right wing Haitian website) --Doe | talk 19:15, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

Anna Ferdinand on Martissant available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT) l

In Defense of Michael Deibert by Gerry Hadden available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

The fact that several authors have praised Deibert for his writing on Haiti does not diminish the fact that there are also many voices from Haiti and abroad that fervently critique Deibert for his witing. -Doe | talk 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

In order to make article accurate, other views must be presented, views now are only critical ones.

Please do read the article again, first of all other views are presented and secondly "other views must be presented" is whose rule exactly anyway.
Do you want to tell me that I am obliged to present Charles Victor Emmanuel Leclerc in a positive light as well.
Think again. After all Deibert as can be seen from the linked to articles, doesn't care about any such notions.
Where is is objective portrayal of say Jean-Bertrand Aristide Right, I thought so too!?

-Doe | talk 19:15, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

3. Patrick Elie

The statements linked to by Patrick Elie - who was imprisoned in the United States for several years for lying - are potentially libelous and open both the website and editor Dominique Esser to possible legal action. See Final notes on Patrick Elie available on michaeldeibert.com Doe 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

Patrick Elie is a well respected commentator on Haitian politics and appears frequently on Al Jazeera, Democracy Now and other media outlets.
The articles by Elie about Deibert's writing are posted on many websites, none of which so far has had a libel suit brought against them.
I merely provided links for the users convenience. That does not imply by any means that I endorse everything Elie says about Deibert.Doe 08:46, 20 July 2011 (PDT)
For More on Patrick Elie see: PATRICK ELIE: CRIMINAL OR POLITICAL PRISONER? Haïti Progres. April 2 - 8, 1997 Vol. 15, No. 2 Accessed on July 20, 2011

-Doe | talk 19:15, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

Patrick Elie is also a convicted felon, also convicted of lying: [5]. Important to put this information before the public and let them decide about his reliability.

Ah, convicted felons can't be trusted?
First of all this was a political case and second tell that notion to prosecutors which constantly use the testimony of people convicted of crimes.
Furthermore Patrick Elie has a very long track record of political engagement and is a frequent commentator onHaiti in the international media.
Deibert/you and the rest of the media world seem to be in disagreement here.

4. Characterization of only "right-wing" opposition to Aristide is false.

Many critics were left wing. For example, the Solidarité Fanm Ayisyen (SOFA), Plateforme Haïtienne de Plaidoyer pour un Développement Alternatif (PAPDA), etc. See "A Tribute to Jacques Roche, Tireless Defender of the Poor!" [6]

Who said that only the right wing opposed Aristide? Obama for example did want to prevent his recent return to Haiti. The current POTUS is commonly not referred to as rightwing.
What I wrote, not my opinion but that of others, is that Deibert seems to espouse right wing views in his reporting on Haiti. -Doe | talk 08:44, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

5. Violation of copyright.

The photo linked to/used is a copyrighted imaged and may open the website and editor Dominique Esser to legal action.

removed many links that point to Michael Deibert's website: deiberthaiti.blogspot.com (please go there for the articles) Doe 18:46, 19 July 2011 (PDT)

Re: Violation of Copyright by posting a link to an image on Michael Deibert's website/blog

Not wanting to go again into the not very well argued claims of defamation, one thing about copyright: If I were to reproduce an image without its creators consent, I might be liable for copyright infringements. Posting a link to an image that is published on the internet is by no stretch of the imagination a copyright violation.
As someone creating media I am very well aware of copyright and I would never use the pages of TLP to disseminate potentially copyrighted material and rather err on the side of caution Doe 08:47, 20 July 2011 (PDT)

Article needed cleanup

Article needed a lot of work, needed to address praise of Diebert's work as well as criticism. He is supported by some pretty well-know Haitian intellectuals and others. I added some links to add perspective.